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No Paine No Gain: A July 4th special »

Posted by: jovial 2 months ago

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An Independence Day look back at the radical influence of Thomas Paine, the often-overlooked founding father whose words sparked the American Revolution.

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Comments So Far: 27

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jovial2 months ago

"Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is a vice"- Thomas Paine
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  dadesider2 months ago
  
  So freakin' true...
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        jovial1 month, 4 weeks ago
        
        Shame on me? With a name like that all shame is with you. It was the writings of Paine that fomented the revolution. If not we might still be a colony today. So your indignation falls on deaf ears. Yes, his writings were radical for the time, but it brought about change. You can argue that it was for the better or worse, but don't criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. The disgust you experience is due to the narrow mindedness you experience when it comes to politics, the economy, and what you perceive to be right and wrong. Thinking like yours is what keeps us locked on to a steady course of destruction both inside and outside of our country.
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        bigurn1 month, 4 weeks ago
        
        Nice treatise on Paine, some of which I had not heard before.
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Spadecaller2 months ago

We sure have a lot of "moderation in principle" going around ...
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globalwarmer2 months ago

Thanks for the brief history lesson jovial
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hyperbola2 months ago

In Paine's time and in early America, the "radical" ideas could survive almost by default because so many resources were "available for the taking" that the oligarchy could not "own the people". Now days we will have to be much more forceful in rejecting control by the oligarchy.
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jordan112 months ago

"Radical is good."
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hurr12 months ago

Something to remember. Something to take into our own hearts. Let us not be silenced.
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scott42612 months ago

I'm glad you posted this, jovial. Thomas Paine is one of the most important of our founding fathers...and perhaps he is the one who gave the final push the colonies needed to become an independent Nation in its own right....the United States of America!
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Wolfie20072 months ago

If Thomas Paine was here today he wouldn't be voting for any liberal democrats. You can take that to the bank.
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  scott42611 month, 4 weeks ago
  
  If you believe that then you know absolutely nothing about Thomas Paine....
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bigurn2 months ago

It's a far cry from Common Sense, which was about liberty, to Progressivism, which is about the reduction of liberty for the public good.
Thomas Paine would not have traded liberty for security.
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  scott42611 month, 4 weeks ago
  
  You mean like nearly every Republican and nearly every other Democrat have done since 9/11?
  "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
  -Benjamin Franklin (another great liberal), 1759
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    bigurn1 month, 4 weeks ago
    
    Agreed. Ben Franklin was a great classical liberal. He was not a social liberal.
    A classical liberal would find a home in Conservatism today.
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bigurn1 month, 4 weeks ago

But do you know the rest of the story? The American Revolution wasn't enough for Paine. He continued to spiral into doctrines of increasing progressivism, until he began to advise anarchy and governmental overthrow as an effective state management scheme.
He died penniless and friendless. His early work in classical liberalism led to a shift to social liberalism. His later treatises offended and marginalized everyone who had supported him. He notably wrote scathing letters about George Washington, the very man whose intervention gave him a seat at the table of the Revolution.
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  jovial1 month, 4 weeks ago
  
  And what's wrong with that. It's that type of discourse that is necessary in a democracy. If everyone were to agree there would be no progress. Thus aptly he is labeled a progressive.
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    bigurn1 month, 4 weeks ago
    
    Never said anything was wrong with it. I do disagree with the principles, and I suspect few would today follow him into anarchy.
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jovial

Grew up In Brooklyn. Joined the Navy in 1976 stayed in 10 years. Aircraft Electronics tech. Worked for Major Govt. contractor then settled in California ...

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